Jon Catton, Communications Director, Greater Yellowstone Coalition, Bozeman

Katharine: Why don't you start out by telling us in your view why snowmobiling [should] be banned in Yellowstone and Teton National Park?

Jon: What's at stake is whether our generation is going to make its commitment to keeping Yellowstone National Park what it was meant to be right from the outset. The people who advocated that we have for the first time in the history of the world a National ParkYellowstone National Parkwere really advancing a generous ideathat the place was so special that future generations ought to be able to enjoy it just the way they were back in 1872. Not some diminished, changed way but unimpaired for future generations. Snowmobiling has really threatened that.

People who go into the park now don't hear the hiss and splash of a geyser nearly as much as they hear the buzz, whine, and roar of snowmobiles. They are not enjoying crisp, high-altitude air. They are seeing through clouds of blue smoke. They are not seeing wildlife that's natural. They are seeing it in many cases stressed and fleeing from machines. So this is a real crossroads for our country because people love National Parks and this one is not now what it used to be.

Katharine: Could a lot of your objections be [seen] as an elitist crusade? Do you think that's a fair characterization?

Jon: I think what is truly really elitist is to say, 'I want to go into Yellowstone National Park and I want to go in the way I want to go in even if it diminishes the experience for everybody else. I want to go in on my snowmobile. I don't care if it drowns out the geysers, I don't care if it puts pollution out the back end, I don't care if it stresses the wildlifethat's what I want to do.' That's elitist. What is the antithesis of elitist is to say, 'We've got to find a way for everybody to enjoy this National Park and that means coming up with a form of access that protects the park itself and the experience that people are seeking in the park.'

Katharine: What in your view is wrong with doing more study of this issue in the supplemental EIS? What is wrong with taking another look at some of these issues?

Jon: There have been at this point 13 years of study in Yellowstone. It is absolutely proven at this point that snowmobiles are impacting the air quality of Yellowstone. Drowning out in many cases the natural sound of the natural quiet, stressing the wildlife. The scientific body of evidence is enormous at this point. It is not just the National Park service who has said that; it's the Environmental Protection Agency. It's 18 Ph.D. scientists recently who wrote the Interior Secretary. Those agencies, those scientists have said beyond a shadow of a doubt, 'We know that snowmobiles are impairing Yellowstone. That's against the law and that's now what the majority of Americans want for Yellowstone.' So the idea of studying it further we believe is façade being put up by industry to justify a new process that would deliver a different outcomemeaning keeping snowmobiles in Yellowstonethat's not about better science, that's not about better information. It's about trying to twist an outcome that science really justified.

Katharine: Let's switch to a broader view of snowmobiling on federal land and talk a little bit about the fact that it exists in the forests and it may increase in the forest if it is banned in the park. Give us your general view of snowmobiling in the national forest around Yellowstone.

Jon: I should have mentioned ahead of time that this is something that I have worked on less myself specifically. But in the question you asked about phasing out snowmobiling in the park . . .

Katharine: Just basically to get your view on how snowmobiling should be handled on the national forest in the Yellowstone ecosystemwhether it is at a level now that needs . . .

Jon: If you look at a map of the greater Yellowstone ecosystem and look at all those places where snowmobiling is allowed, either on trails or off-trail in the back countryit is an enormous percentage of the ecosystem. So point number onephasing it out in Yellowstone National Park where there are very special laws and expectations on the part of the publicis a very small percentage of all the snowmobiling that is allowed in the ecosystem. And then if you go into those areas and ask the question, 'Is it having too much of an impact there on the wildlife, on the water quality, on the air, on the experience of other people recreating outside?' I think that it is a very case-by-case situation. There are places where it is working, and where I don't think a great percentage of people would say that there is a problem. But there are other places, including trespass into wilderness areas for example, where it is shattering the quiet and threatening wildlifea particular species in particular placeswhere it's very important that the Forest Service look closely at whether it's living up to its obligations under the law. But I don't think that a blanket statement can be made.

Katharine: What about restrictions on the clean burning machinesshould they be required in the National Park if that is the outcome of the new study?

Jon: We are hopeful that the snowmobile industry where it hasn't been for 30 years will start to build a more responsible machine. Reduce the pollution, reduce the noise. What's very concerning is that earlier this year the major manufacturesPolaris, Arctic Cats, Skidoo, Yamaha, together those four companies make about 99% of the snowmobiles in Americathey sent a letter to the Environmental Protection Agency saying essentially, 'We don't think you can regulate us. We don't think that you have the authority.' And then they said, 'If you do, this is the most that we think that we can do technologically and economically, and we wouldn't want to see you set the bar any higher than this.

Lo and behold the Environmental Protection Agency has proposed exactly that standard. That's disturbing to a lot of people. The EPA is meant to be regulating industry, not responding to industry. The upshot of it is that for all of the talk that sounds very reasonable about making cleaner, quieter machines, in fact the industry is wanting to, and the EPA is proposing to allow them to, make unnecessarily noisy and dirty machines for another 10 years.

Katharine: Let's go back to clean machines. Tell me why, if the industry says they can provide a cleaner and quieter machineand this comes out in the supplemental EISwhat would be wrong with that?

Jon: I think that it is a very fair and reasonable question that people are asking. What is the matter with a less polluting, less noisy machine if the snowmobile industry can make thatwhy not in Yellowstone allow that? First of all I think that it is terribly important that we get more responsible machines because they are going to be in Wisconsin and Vermont and Michigan and Wyoming, and to the extent that they can create less pollution, less noise, that's a good thing. Is it a solution for Yellowstone? No, it's not, for several reasons. Number one, the wildlife. In Yellowstone, the wildlife that are spread out over two million acres in the summer are concentrated in low-lying river valleys in the winter time, right where the roads are. So you have 75 thousand machines forging through places where the wildlife is being stressed at a time of year when a little bit more stress can spell the difference for whether an elk or a bison or another animal makes it or not. So wildlife is a big issue.

Secondly, we don't believe that the industry is genuinely wanting to produce a truly cleaner and quieter snowmobile. They have pressured the Environmental Protection Agency to set the bar very lowa weak standard. And the Environmental Protection Agency has so far responded and said, 'Ok that's what you want industry, that is where we are going to set the standard.' That is disturbing to a lot of Americans who want the EPA to be regulating industry and not responding to it. Noisethe EPA has not only set a very weak standard for making the snowmobiles less polluting; they've said that you can have 10 years to make them only marginally cleaner instead of dramatically cleaner the way that we know they can be made. But also the EPA has said we can't do anything about noise. We just don't have the budget to enforce that. So very conceivably after 10 years you are still going to have snowmobiles that are still way more polluting than they need to be and very, very noisy.

Katharine: Is there anything else that you would like to comment on about this issue?

Jon: One more thing that you had asked about is, 'Why not more study?' I feel I can give you a more succinct answer. The snowmobile industry is saying, 'Let's just study this a little bit more.' It sounds reasonable to some people until you list the facts. There have been 13 years of study. The National Park Service, the EPA very recently, 18 Ph.D. scientists from all over North America have said that the science is solid. Snowmobiles are damaging Yellowstone. Essentially Yellowstone needs protection, not more study, at this point. Now the public is saying that, the science is saying that, the agencies have said that. Let's get on with doing right by America's first national park.