 |
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
doug peacock
doug peacock Good evening
Gregg Cawley
Gregg Cawley Hi Doug. I'm connected in from California
margo james
Daniel Kemmis
Gregg Cawley Hi Dan.
John Freemuth
Gregg Cawley Hi John
John Freemuth Hi Professsor
Daniel Kemmis Hello Gregg & John.
Gregg Cawley OK. It seems to be working.
John Freemuth Hey Dan--Yes is doug there?
doug peacock Yes!
John Freemuth Hi Doug
doug peacock It was great to hear you guys during the show
doug peacock some great dialogue during the show with this group that's usually so polarized
doug peacock very pleasant to listen to
doug peacock with one acception
Daniel Kemmis Have you all had an opportunity to see the show? I can't get it here.
John Freemuth It got better as it went along--
doug peacock I have seen it
John Freemuth wahts the exception?
doug peacock I think Helen would make a wonderful shrunken head
Gregg Cawley I haven't seen it either, Dan.
John Freemuth ah.....
doug peacock as an amature, I can see it nicely
John Freemuth This is the first time its been on
John Freemuth I guess there is one observer?
Gregg Cawley Yeah, I know but I don't have a TV. Actually, this is really wacky. I'm sitting at the Concierge desk at the Westin hotel in Palo Alto.
John Freemuth I am at home enjoying a beverage
doug peacock I have a pretty good Australian Merlot in front of me
John Freemuth Public land red?
doug peacock Yes, it is, exactly
doug peacock the wildland red
Daniel Kemmis It's tea for me - at least for now.
doug peacock anarchist special
John Freemuth I wonder how the Aussies would view all of this discussion
doug peacock Yeah...over a billabong bar-b-cue no doubt
John Freemuth More great redrock country there--got to see it someday
Daniel Kemmis Someone tell me about the show. What were the best or most surprising or provocative parts?
doug peacock I'm gonna rack my brain...
doug peacock the notion of consensus surprized me
John Freemuth Grazing fees discussion--the new move to buy outranchers was one--
doug peacock frankly I have never seen greater larger good coming from what we call consensus
doug peacock so much of the dialogue comes over the recreational use of wild lands
doug peacock and frankly I never considered recreation good enough reason to go anyplace wild
doug peacock we can do that on our Bozeman streets, or ski resorts
Gregg Cawley But what do you mean by consensus Doug.
John Freemuth yeah the definition is open to debate for sure
doug peacock but we have so few public wild places left, I question the notion of recreation being a good enough reason to go anywhere like that
Gregg Cawley So, what would be a good reason?
John Freemuth we need another sort of reason perhaps?
doug peacock the real rights I carre about are the wild habitats themselves and the plant and animal communities themseleves, I see those rights as primary and most important
Gregg Cawley But where do habitats get rights?
doug peacock there are sacred places that need to be above and apart from culture, the last wild lands are not a matter of cows or cutting trees, we need to talk about the rights of the bears and the last wolf
margo james
doug peacock our collective job should be to speak out for the powerless and voiceless
John Freemuth should we have areas that are thus protected from use--closed of to all, even the scientisits?
doug peacock In my own case I work with big carnivores
Gregg Cawley Hello Margo, jump in at any time.
doug peacock any place they live is important enough to protect and save, as THE priority
margo james Hi, this is gens...we are trying to modify the options on the chat because right now if you join the chat, you only see from that moment on. I hope that when we reset the options nothing bad happens to the thread, but thought I should warn you.
margo james thanks for being here tonight
doug peacock all the talk of snowmobiles and cattle grazing is extraneous
John Freemuth but if people dont think it is extreaneous...
Idaho Video
doug peacock about the scientists, yes..they should be closed
Gregg Cawley My concern is the extent to which "rights of nature" turns out to be a front for people to tell other people what to do.
Idaho Video Hello group
John Freemuth yes--good pt
doug peacock I would like those areas, chosen by mutual consent, where we do not go
Daniel Kemmis It doesn't seem extraneous to the ranchers or the snowmobilers.
doug peacock Cawley..I share that concern
doug peacock I suggest my ideal condition would be a place none of us goes
John Freemuth what if we dont get to that consesn
doug peacock law enforcement and federal law is in and of itself an artifact of culture
doug peacock we need some places free from all culture and government
Kerridan
Daniel Kemmis But where do we get this idea of nature as human-free?
doug peacock I don't trust them to anybody
Idaho Video I am sick and tired of the public land becoming a locked out place only the elite class and environmentalists have access to
John Freemuth I think doug is locking himself out too
John Freemuth watch this
doug peacock It's never human free...but it was once a landscape where once a culture of humans didn't have to domesticate the landscape
John Freemuth come on everyone!
doug peacock Idaho Vid...you know, I know what you mean, but it isn't logical enough to merit a response
Gregg Cawley But if we, for instance, include indigenous folks of North America, then humans have been adjusting the landscapes for some time now.
Kerridan
Idaho Video I spent a week hunting in the frank church wilderness this fall... if anyone could visit they would see blatant waste of countless dead timber that will fall and rot rather than allow responcible people to go in and harevst them.
Idaho Video in the name of so called wilderness
doug peacock I like the notion of public lands managers not helping acces in the least
John Freemuth widerness may not be open to that sort of activity whehtere its good idea or not
Kerridan What about cattle affecting cultural resources on public lands? I have personally seen cultural resources damaged by cattle. What actions or responsibilities does the ranchers or federal agencies have to protect these resources?
doug peacock a place where, if you're craxzy enough, you can go if you want
Gregg Cawley So help me out here. What do we do with dead timber?
doug peacock Kerridan...they have some logical ones, it's cattle are not the main problem
John Freemuth harvest it sometimes, not sometimes
doug peacock you can correct that problem by getting them off the land for a few years
Idaho Video we got to get it out.... or the whole damn thing burns or go to wastes. There are ways to do it without clearcutting or harming the forest
doug peacock not irreparable
Gregg Cawley Kerridan, can you give us a more concrete example of what you mean by cultural resources?
doug peacock It's the idea of something being sacred about cattle, the idea that they are somehow more sacred than
doug peacock native species
doug peacock I don
doug peacock don't buy it
doug peacock I take acception to the idea that running cattle in the West is a tradition
Idaho Video cattle have there place, but they should be kept in check
doug peacock tradition has to be something that is a sustainable industry, we have not proven that is so
doug peacock even through 3 0r 4 generations, not enough
doug peacock sure...kept in check
Idaho Video Why should those having access to public grazing lands have a competitive advantage over those who have to buy or lease private ground. (speaking as a former cattle owner)
John Freemuth is sustainability something that might lead to agreement
Gregg Cawley So what do we mean by sustainable?
John Freemuth aha
Gregg Cawley I mean technically without massive energy inputs the earth itself is not sustainable
doug peacock Sustainable is something that is a tradition
doug peacock something which can be done over generations
Susan Brown
John Freemuth so ranching could be that?
doug peacock a cultural system that can preserve wild landscapes and exist with them
John Freemuth what is wild?
Gregg Cawley Hello Susan, feel free to join in
Idaho Video hi susan
Susan Brown hello
doug peacock our national parks, for lands, , BLM areas all should have areas that are commercial free..no cattle, logging, guiding, photography...no one should be able to make a nickle off of it
Daniel Kemmis I don't think ranchers should have privileged access to public lands - or that timber producers should But I'm troubled by the almost religous overtones of the purists who insist on no cattle on public lands, or no commercial harvest. Surely there are some of these lands that are suitable for activities that sustain human families and communities. And some of them that are suitable to be left wild.
doug peacock you should be able to go in as a private person, but no one can profit from it
doug peacock No mushroom gathering, what a gross scene that is
John Freemuth tradtion=not money making?
doug peacock it is at base no different than making a buck from a bunch of eco-tourists
doug peacock but you can do things for your own personal sake
Susan Brown daniel - why do you think we should let our public lands go to waste, and not let ranching and other production on it?
doug peacock a commercial free zone, no money made from it
John Freemuth Outside Magazine is ended!
doug peacock there's a fine line between seeing the wildreness as a source of spiritual renewal and a giant
Casey Wilde
Idaho Video Frank church area as an example is a case where a private interest (diamond d ranch) has a private estate in the middle of protected wilderness... they are exploiting it
doug peacock supermarket
Kerridan As a hunter, I have no respect for cattle ranchers. I have seen cattle force elk and deer away from their historic winter feeding grounds. I have seen cattle from one allotment move into a pasture of another allotment. I have seen federal agencies demand that the pemittee remove the cattle from the allotment and the rancher refuse to and go to their lawyers. I've seen these cattle starve to death from a lack of feed. It's pretty obvious that the ranchers do not care for their cattl
doug peacock where you harvest the antlers and take all the cleints
Daniel Kemmis So, Doug, where does this absolute prohibibition against making a living come from? Why has that become an article of faith to the faithful?
Susan Brown kerridan - You do not appreciate ranchers allowing you hunt?!!! You should be ashamed of your self!!
Kerridan The Jarbidge road goes nowhere. It's just politics (sort of like a feud) that made this such a political issue.
doug peacock dan.,...it is simply that we are have lost these areas so fast
doug peacock they havce gone so quickly
John Freemuth wrting about natuer is thus off limits?
doug peacock there is no way to maintain the minimal amount of wildness we need
doug peacock the whole notion of wilderness is up for grabs
Laurel Fitschen
Marvin Gardner
doug peacock we are down to such a minimal level now that these areas can not bear any more stress from tourism
Idaho Video Ranchers say on one hand they protect the land, but that is a bunch of bunk... most dont. they damage the water drainages
doug peacock or commercialism
Gregg Cawley What is the minimal amount of wilderness we need?
doug peacock I value the notion of wilderness as refuges for the human spirit
doug peacock it's a place apart from culture
John Freemuth wilderss is a culture bound thing isnt it?
Idaho Video If you cant access it, you cant experience it
doug peacock the quickest place we can go to be apart from culture it is f***ed
Marvin Gardner Helen Chenoweth-Hage (or whatever) is, as usual, full of cow-pucky when it comes to the Constitution of the United States etc.,
Susan Brown Idaho - If ranchers didn't protect and preserve the land, how would they make a living. Our cattle live off the land, and if there is no quality land,
Susan Brown ranchers are in trouble
doug peacock As Abbey said, "A patriot always needs to be prepared to protect his country from its government."
doug peacock and I feel these are indeed the days we live
doug peacock and I feel wilderness itself plays a huge role in resistance
John Freemuth Desert solitare!
doug peacock a place from which we can foment rebellion, if necessary
Kerridan Two things....The Woody Guthrie song is so inappropriate to the ideals he had versus the ideals of the ranchers. Number two: Cultural resources refers to historic (50 years old or older) and American Indian sites. Sites are locations which show evidence of human activity.
Idaho Video Desert waste land
Gregg Cawley So, why don't we change society?
Laurel Fitschen I think of Sage Hen Res. up by Ola....I cannt let the children go there because the cow manure. This is Public Land....a designated camp ground decimated by the rancher with his cattle...if this is a sample of how the rancher protects the land then we need to consider the public need for protection.
Idaho Video with an occaisional oasis
doug peacock FREEMUTH---YES ! YES!!!!
doug peacock YES!
doug peacock Solitaire!
John Freemuth I use it in class--makes students think, which is a goal
doug peacock which is a miracle!
doug peacock God bless you!
doug peacock teachers are more important than anything I can think of
doug peacock nothing is more important
Gregg Cawley But isn't solitarie a tad bit misanthropic?
doug peacock Cawley..Yes
John Freemuth sure--Abbey would agree
doug peacock it's at least anti-social
doug peacock
John Freemuth so they have to read Muir, Pinchot....on and on
doug peacock John..I'd reccomend it
Casey Wilde I have seen ranchers improve their own land the way they would like to see public lands improve by thinning trees and planting grass to improve habitat for livestock and wildelife alike
doug peacock can't read enough these days
doug peacock and we don't have comtemp voices that add up ot that experiences
doug peacock we have to read these people
doug peacock so pleased that you're forcing these things upon your students
John Freemuth is that tradition?
Idaho Video forest service is notorious for tearing up the roads in eastern Idaho!!!!
Kerridan No Doug, I do not harvest the antlers. That's for the rodents. Antler harvesting (in fact trophy hunting) is bogus.
John Freemuth I have them read Kemmis and Cawley too
Daniel Kemmis Id Vid:
Idaho Video reserved for unsavory introduced species like bearsand wolves (another conflict)
doug peacock Kerridan..couldn't agree more...and those porkypines need the trace potassium
John Freemuth Note: NPS helped bring this about--
doug peacock also concerned where the culture's priority is to keep homoerectus erect by sacrifice of animals
Idaho Video Feds want everyone out. (easier to manage)
Daniel Kemmis What do you mean about tearing up roads. Removing them - or mistreating them?
doug peacock I ahd hoped viagra would solve these problems in the short run, apparently not
John Freemuth more research needed
Idaho Video They have been blocking off roads -- established access roads in the forests that have been around for 40 years
doug peacock JOhn..laughing...well, uh...tell me waht you find out, I might be in line
doug peacock I have one foot solidly in geezerhood here
Ben Poston
Daniel Kemmis It seems to me that there might be some places where roads that were put in for timber harvest might well be removed after that activity is over. Not all roads, but some.
Idaho Video snow machines are about the cleanest form of travel out there... no dust, no footprint
Susan Brown i agree idaho video!
John Freemuth should they be in national parks?
Susan Brown of course
Kerridan Casey, you don't get it. Cattle ranchers have changed the ecosystem by planting non-native species, and have spread weeds as a result. If we want to ranch, then we need to reintroduce bison into the ecosystem.
Idaho Video why not?
John Freemuth why?
Gregg Cawley Sorry, but I can't use two-stroke engine and clean in the same sentence.
John Freemuth are parks the same as forests?
Laurel Fitschen I do not understand the purpose of this "live chat"..I thought one would have access to te current program. This seems like a chted between Peacock, Kemmis and Freemuth...I did not realize this forum was just a foolish chat room. I am against the use of snowmobiles in national parks and wilderness areas for other than emmergency use...this, I beleive is a sad sign. The animals are stressed enough why allow this but this chat room is like preaching to the choir!
John Freemuth you have to weigh in--you just did
John Freemuth we have atopic--snowmobiles in parks?
Kerridan No, snowmobiles SHOULD NOT be allowed in the National Parks.
Idaho Video The role of the public lands is to make it avaialable and protected for everyone.
doug peacock Snomobiles...No.
doug peacock Idaho...you can't do that.
doug peacock A contradiction in terms
Ben Poston Probably can use 4 stroke engines as soon as they get them over here..
John Freemuth public lands aernt all the same are they?
Idaho Video even in the park they have to stay on the trails and observe standards of conduct.
doug peacock you cannot protect a resource like the act of and provide for the enjoyment of the gen public
Susan Brown what are the snowobiles hurting? all it will hurt by taking them out is local citizen business
Kerridan About 4-stroke engines: If you're not a racer, you don't need a two-stroke engine.
doug peacock can't have endless human entry, everywhere, roads, trails..can't have that anymore
Idaho Video had the park been managed it would not have burned in late 80s
Ben Poston Air quality is worse than in LA some days..
doug peacock that act from almost 100 years did not forsee all these things
John Freemuth the debate seems to be over what is appropriate in a park
doug peacock it's unusable today
Kerridan The performance difference between a 4-and a 2-stroke engine would not defer your enjoyment.
doug peacock that's fine, but that would bother a lot of people because it is decided by who is in power in the parks
Susan Brown We all seem very knowledgable about snowmobiles, but we are all against them? It doesn't make much sense!
doug peacock appropriate use is indeed the question, who gets to decide it is questionable
doug peacock needs to be as democratic as possible which means the entire nation
Kerridan Ergo, the powercurve is unnoticeable to the operator.
doug peacock not industry, or local concerned citizenry
doug peacock huge question
Ben Poston Ask any WJellystone emt we don't need 80 mph snow rockets with drunks at the throttle
John Freemuth ype--who decides is key question
Idaho Video if it was left up to the local people who know the land the best, it would be in its best care
doug peacock Ben--Laughs
Susan Brown i agree idaho video!!
John Freemuth national parks too?
Susan Brown yes
doug peacock Hey, I used to be an EMT...just means more business in emergency rooms, but terrible sight to behold, I concur as an old medic
Ben Poston Sure if the locals wanna take care of it fine pay the taxes
Gary L Slominski
Idaho Video If you think the reintroduction of wolves in yellowstone has not effected the big game population in ID outside of the park one is kidding themselves.
Ben Poston Therein lies the bind..locals want the land free..
Idaho Video Yellowstone is a cash cow for the govt.
John Freemuth watch Jack Ward
John Freemuth cash cow?
Susan Brown You have a great point!! If we are so worried about the wildlife of Yellowstone, why did we introduce wolves. They are 100% harder on wildlife
Ben Poston Jellystone is a cash cow for the operators...look what Reagans friends did in Yosemite..
doug peacock Idaho...that's BS, not going to get into that one
Kerridan About brucellosis (sp?). I live in Challis. We lost a large number of our bighorn sheep because domesticated goats spread disease to them. The owners of these goats did not have to destroy their animals. Yet....cattle ranchers kill bison, a native species, because they (and elk, by the way) spread bucelosis to cattle. This, to me, is hyprocritical. Cattle should be killed for spreading disease to the native species.
John Freemuth concessionaires are nt the governemnt
Gregg Cawley Well, down on my side of yellarstone, the notion was that it was better to introduce wolves than let them come back on their own.
Idaho Video not to mention the false claims on the buffalo regarding bruscelosis. A tactic of the ranchers not to compete with their cattle for grazing land
Susan Brown Gregg Cawley - Why would they come back on their own?
Ben Poston Yessindeedy consessioners are not the govrnment but they make most of the money out ofthe parks..
Laurel Fitschen What is the purpose of this chat room? Willour comments be aired? I think the sad fact is we, as a people are basically selfish. I think the conversation about change is appropriate...we like modern convenience...we encroach natural grazing grounds here in Boise. We cannot fantasize about the fairy tale of the "natural" world we need to somehow let people know the world is not the same...wolves left because there were too many people...we can introduce them but unless we move the people out
doug peacock Cawley..you know, I would disagree
Gary L Slominski
doug peacock I wish we could have kept the ground clear for them to come back on their own
Steven King
doug peacock what we have now is not wolfdome, it's about PHD's and biologists
doug peacock every wolf has a radio collar
doug peacock and they are exterminated the minute they go out of the bounds
Kerridan Susan: Wolves are native species. Remember Darwin. The wolf populations will increase, decimate wild herds, die off, and herds will increase in number. We have a lot of poaching problems in this country, which are WAY MORE problematic to wildlife than wolves.
doug peacock it did not serve wild wolfdom one bit
doug peacock not sure it's really great for wolves
Laurel Fitschen Chennoworth scares me....she just doesnot get it....she sees $$$$$$
Daniel Kemmis It seems to me there is a fundamental difference between parks and most national forests or BLM land. theres' an actual national interest in national parks so that national democracy should decide what happens there. But I think if some national forests or BLM land were kept public but the locals were given the responsibility to care for it well, they would surprise people with how well they would do.
doug peacock until they run free, living wolfish lives, I don't think anything has been accomplished
Gary L Slominski
Kerridan Who receives that $12 billion dollar industry? The land?
Steven King bet she's never winter camped in Yellowstone
Ben Poston Chennoweth is the poster child of hair spray abuse!!!!
Gary L Slominski
John Freemuth I agree, Dan
Chrys Olson
Kerridan here, here
Susan Brown Kerridan - How would you like to live next to the park and worry about your animals being threatened by wolves. You would feel much different if your pet or loved one was attacked by a wolf
Idaho Video key point
Kerridan Susan,
Idaho Video majority of the minority who mentions his polictical concern
Casey Wilde
Ben Poston Farmies will lose ten cows to poor fences and general laziness to every one that gits et by wooves..
Steven King Yellowstone is an ecosystem susan, not just a petting zoo
Kerridan OOps, sorry Susan. I am responsible for my animals. I live around wolves and I make appropriate precautions to make sure my amimals are not exposed to wolves.
Gregg Cawley So, John, what's an ecosystem
John Freemuth anythging ya want it to be I think
Laurel Fitschen Susan...you are right...the ecosytem which has been tampered with by huans wanted campin, hiking and recreation rights
Susan Brown What in the hell do you think ranchers do with their livestock. Do you not think we manage them and care for them. W
Ben Poston hee hee..I worked on ranches...I stand by my statement]
Idaho Video they manage us ...
Casey Wilde Ranching has been a way of life for hundreds of years do you think they should just stop
John Freemuth have there been any collaborative efforts on parklands? Waht does that mean?
Kerridan Ben: yehaw! Yes, you have a point. There are plenty of ranchers out here who do not mend their fences and end up losing a lot of cattle. I've found a few attacking my vegeteble garden (which, byt the way, was fenced in!!!)
Idaho Video its not an issue of taking care of the livestock but letting them have free roam in a wilderness.
Steven King Yellowstone is as old as the ranches
Susan Brown Kerridan - did you not have a good fence. Must have been a bad fence!!
Kerridan Yep, I think they should just stop. My dad lost his career because of the Japanese. He was forced to "just stop".
doug peacock CASEY---they aren't gonna stop, but in this country it's merely a hundred years..if the practice is going to be able to continue is open to question
John Freemuth and older than the states around it
doug peacock it's not economical and has eaten up too much of the West without regard to other issues
doug peacock Ranchers oughta quit whining about it, they have it their way for a long time..has been heavily subsidized, more than welfare mothers anywhere
Casey Wilde The issue should have been ranching all the time
doug peacock just because it's been going on a long time does not mean it's a good thing
Kerridan Susan: Get real. I had a very strong barbwire fence. Supported by electric wire. The cattle wanted my lettuce really, realy badly.
Steven King righty o doug!!
Susan Brown You are full of shit. Good night
Gregg Cawley Ah come on Doug, we're all subsidized.
Idaho Video i guess she was mad
Joy Bloch
doug peacock CAWLEY..how true!
Chrys Olson Hi...I left federal service as a rangeland management specialist in NE Nevada because of the contentious, stubborn nature of the agency I worked for and the community I lived it. I was in the middle of the Jarbidge situation. The road washed out over 5 yrs. ago. Seems like it will never get settled.
Kerridan Naughty, naughty on the bad word. I guess you can't support the facts then, Susan.
Ben Poston Its such an emotional thing..if a farmer goes under for whatever reason drugs divorce poor management its a big deal....if I am a butcher a baker or a candlestick maker,,,"well that just hard luck"
John Freemuth ooooook--the show is off the air but we are live!
Idaho Video Notice I said I was a former cattle owner earlier
Kerridan Who are you, Idaho Video?
Idaho Video The owner of a video production company in eastern ID
Idaho Video no relation to PTV
John Freemuth I have to go but will be helping on the webchat later
Ben Poston Dang , I thought we might have an insider
Kerridan You know, I've been so busy typing that I didn't get to listen much to the program. Perhaps they should have had the chat room after the show. Would have been more fun.
Steven King some people just can't get past "it's all about me"
Idaho Video nope, just a hunting fisherman type who lives here in spite of the wages
John Freemuth it will be on again
Kerridan When?
Ben Poston You git paid???
doug peacock chat room continues, they tell me, for at least another half hour
John Freemuth sunday
Kerridan Time?
Susan Brown
Ben Poston I thought if you had a job in Idaho that was enough..!!!:O)
margo james
Idaho Video welcome back sus
Gregg Cawley Welcome back Susan.
Kerridan Hi, Susan.
John Freemuth ok i will stay with it as long as I can
Susan Brown hi
margo james Hi, I'm with IdahoPTV. Western Divide airs again on IdahoPTV on Sunday at 5:30 MT, 4:30PT
John Freemuth what id people think of the show
Chrys Olson I'm in Reno watching it now.
margo james Western Divide is still airing in Nevada for another 1/2 hour
Kerridan Btw, why are all these warnings shown before public tv in this country? Like, is NOVA illegal?
John Freemuth thats Idaho politics
Steven King lol, sort of
Idaho Video IPTV made the decision to promote homosexuality which is a criminal offense... legislature said can't promote it with state tax money.
Ben Poston Not bad...forsest service guy is a prime epample of why the regulatory agencies are held in such high esteem..
Kerridan I think the show would have been more enjoyable if we were allowed to view the show before we started the chat room. Also, could you provide more room for us to type? By the time I scroll around, I'm behind!
John Freemuth hold on there--thats is sort of open to interpretation
margo james IdahoPTV tries hard to provide balanced programming. Was this program balanced?
Joy Bloch A couple of questions: I'm confused. I was in and out of Jarbridge this August after backpacking in the wilderness. I had the choice of 3 different roads into the area. Is it a road issue or a individual rights issue?
Ben Poston John what is open..
Joy Bloch Cecil Andrus and Helen Chenowith on the same panel? That's balanced.
Idaho Video if you mean giving the 1% environmentalist waccos 50% of the subject debate it was balanced
John Freemuth for godsakes IDPTV shows Lawrwnce Welk too
Kerridan Really? Homosexuality is illegal in this state? Then why don't they just say it? I mean, I'm not gay, but I've had colleagues who were....Oh sorry. I guess that's not the topic.
Chrys Olson Road issue. Who is reponsible for the maintenance. Lots of time spent determining who actually owned the road.
Ben Poston It was a fund rasing issue for the old Sage Brush Rebellion boys..
John Freemuth good--lets get to topic of felands
margo james 'appreciate you input on what works/doesn't work with the show, or the chat...our first try at simultaneous chat with airing a program!
Idaho Video this window is too darn small (feedback)
Ben Poston Yeah Make the window bigger..!!!
Chrys Olson If it hadn't been the road the Sagebrush Rebellion would have found something else.
Kerridan Road issue: My understanding is that the road wasn't even historic and therefore there were no issues.
doug peacock About balance..not a concept that enter my mind very much...the program, more importantly, was appreciated because it was such a sober, no cheap shots, only brief periods of lie telling by one woman...a good program. YOu can't have a program like that very often where it's as vital as this one was. I think you picked those guys very well. They had soemthing to say, they were'nt full of themselves, so I think that's balance.
Casey Wilde Good try keep making improvements
Joy Bloch Second question: has the limited permit option been entirely kicked around by the Yellowstone folks?
John Freemuth for snowmoblies?
Kerridan Crys: Very true.
Joy Bloch I don't like the fact that I had to be on line exactly at noon to get a permit to hike the Wave in N.AZ, but it preserves a fragile
Joy Bloch environment
John Freemuth the Wave?
Joy Bloch Coyote Buttes, Paria Canyon Vermillion Cliffs Wilderness
Joy Bloch less than 20 people allowed to dayhike per day
John Freemuth oh--been there nevr heard that! that was in the 70s
doug peacock Look...I hate regulated places, I just won't go there...not sure what you do about it...
Joy Bloch but, the issue is the same. The fragility of the environment versus our wish to be part of it
Ben Poston Well look at Yosemite major town on weekends...ah wilderness..
doug peacock maybe just not provide access...natural filters,bad roads to good places
Idaho Video Craters of the moon just had a bit of adjacent land added to it.... but in all honesty the existing parcel of land could not be administered with the budgets. Frankly lets be honest... it was protected by its isolation and ruggedness as is most of this state
Steven King winter in Yellowstone is brutal. The animals don't stay in a Best Western. The # of machines is way to high. why not try a new way?
Kerridan The purpose of limits in numbers is to help preserve the unique ecosystem. Unfortunately, we have to live with it. I'm still waiting for my float down the
Chrys Olson Back to Jarbidge. the debate continues on status. maps from around did not show the road.
Joy Bloch What about restricting the numbers instead of banning them all together
Kerridan Colorado...
Ben Poston that is the Idaho formula for not doing anything..underfund the process
Kerridan Chrys: I know. I know quite a bit about the road.
doug peacock Joy...yes, probably necc, unfortunately
John Freemuth who gets to say how much is toomuch visitation?
Steven King why change a plan that hasn't been tried yet?
Joy Bloch two strands... I want to follow them both...what about the maps?
Chrys Olson Probably more than I do it sounds.
Idaho Video It was an issue of making it easier on the animals why introduce the predators.
doug peacock but by mere regulation you change the perameters of the place, becomes a result of what you can and can't do...main reason I argue for a few places that are big enough to be self-regulated in every way
Steven King predators kill old and sick
Kerridan The ecosystem says how much is too much. Can't have 30,000 floating down the Salmon at one time. The ecosystem wouldn't be able to handle it.
doug peacock need to be hard to get to, or with lots of FLESH EATING CARNIVORES!
Idaho Video as well as the yound and the healthy
richard dahlgren
Steven King lol
John Freemuth the ecosystem dosnt care, does it--we care
Ben Poston NOTT FLESH EATING CARNIVORES!!!!!!
Kerridan Well, in a sense, that's true.
doug peacock I'd like to be out there in one of those habitats
doug peacock with a bacon sandwhich, lure him in
Ben Poston Those flesh eating ones are the very worst kinda carnivores you know;O)
Steven King try pickled herring
doug peacock My favorires
John Freemuth bacon is acultural artifact--like whiskey
doug peacock laughing
Idaho Video we have the responcibility of customizing the eccosystem to our likes and interests as a society. But the voices of those which have little interested is weighted more than mine.
doug peacock pickled heerring is the food of my people
doug peacock along with ketchup, the sauce of my people
Kerridan However, if you want toilet paper floating down the Salmon, of if you want to see toilet paper on the banks of your favorite waterhole, maybe THAT ecosystem is more preferable, than permits?
Ben Poston Who was the Dork that thought up the flesheating carnivores thing...he/she otta be slapped..
Kerridan slap, slap.
John Freemuth your people are clearly endangered
Gregg Cawley And in need of a better diet!
Joy Bloch Chris, tell me about the road...
doug peacock Freemuth..they haven';t changed the recipes for 150 years
Kerridan John, who are you talking to?
doug peacock that's a tradition
John Freemuth Doug
Kerridan ok
richard dahlgren What's the topic? I'm reading nothing but BS.
Joy Bloch I'll look for it between quips
John Freemuth too many voices at once--hey thats whitman!
Kerridan The original topic was ranching, then snowmobiling, then Jarbridge....
doug peacock Freemuth...laughing...AH YEs...and educated man
Gregg Cawley your call Richard
Idaho Video protection of fed/state lands
Ben Poston Now the EVils of Flesh EATING CARNIVORES..
richard dahlgren Instream flow for fish?
doug peacock laughing
Idaho Video I am just such a carnivore
doug peacock like to hear more
Kerridan Ben, what carnivores aren't flesh-eating?
doug peacock about those carnivores
Gregg Cawley for or against?
Idaho Video I have a great recipe for spotted owl
Chrys Olson Joy: Historic maps did not show the South canyon Road. The Forest was established around .
Steven King human vegatarians
Kerridan No matter how you cook it, Spotted Owl just doesn't taste like chicken.
richard dahlgren The rout streams all over the state are baout to collapse.
Ben Poston I dunno nevr heard of carnies that weren't...but must be some new species up at Challis..
John Freemuth we seem be to dancing with preservation anduse as our theme, with intesne examples thrown in
Joy Bloch Okay Chrys, the maps didn't show the road, and?
Kerridan Challis? why do you say Challis?
Idaho Video challis area is remote enough to largely protect itself.
Steven King it seems to be like all things
Kerridan I don't know about that, IV.
richard dahlgren Correction: The trout streams all over the state are about to collapse.
Kerridan No kidding
Idaho Video of course common sence tells that some tp regulations are in order
Ben Poston That is where I first heard the phrase...
Steven King some people are willing to give up some for a better good
Steven King some people want all and want it now
Kerridan Yeah, our president wants it all now.
Chrys Olson Joy: The community claimed the road existed before establishment of the Forest, therefore making the county the responsible agency. They couldn't prove it.
John Freemuth good description of politics, steve
Kerridan That's true.
Ben Poston WE want the world....and we want it NOOWWWWWW...the Doors
John Freemuth note that USFS and the forest may be different dates
Kerridan Jim Morrison. Yeah!!! He's the MAN!
Joy Bloch gotcha. And the true issue now? The rights of the local agency vs. the federal?
John Freemuth local agency? the county?
Kerridan Counties aren't local agencies.
Idaho Video tonights show shows the merits of public TV... what language is most of this in anyways?
Joy Bloch Again, I'm a little confused because of the fact that I was in that area this summer and didn't see the closed access?
Joy Bloch access.
Ben Poston Jarbidge was a fundrasier pure and simple
John Freemuth thats politics too
Joy Bloch A Publicity campaign
Joy Bloch ?
Idaho Video IPTV leans a bit to the left.
Kerridan Jarbridge was an attempt by a tiny community who felt that they weren't in control.
Chrys Olson Joy: Yes. The agency granted an easement to the county last I heard, making them financially responsible. Were you at S. Canyon?
Gregg Cawley So, in a democracy what's not politics?
Idaho Video religion :)
Susan Brown2
Steven King wb susan
Kerridan Religion is politics, big time.
Ben Poston Idaho: that's becuase you have never heard from the real twitchyeyed right..
Gregg Cawley Thanks Id Vid--forgot about that
Ben Poston Or left I should say...
Joy Bloch I went in to East Jarbridge River from Elko, afterwards drove to Jarbridge then out to Owyhee.
Susan Brown3
John Freemuth do we need to recover our politics?
Kerridan Hi again, Susan
Idaho Video SW ID is not my forte.
Steven King anyone who thinks they're going to heaven is scary!!
Joy Bloch Up and over the grade, past the mines, etc. Incredible beautiful country. An incredibly beautiful backpack
Joy Bloch But I missed the South ... road, obviously
richard dahlgren Why don't you guys give up on the jarbidge issue?
Idaho Video I find it a healthy discussion since it is representative of other good places in this state
Ben Poston Money to be made there...
Joy Bloch richard, did, just finishing.
Gregg Cawley Seems to me a key move in any political situation is to make a small event symbolic of a much larger set of complaints. In that regard Jarbridge really worked as demonstrated by the fact we're still talking about it.
Kerridan Jarbridge is not an easy issue to give up. Similar situations are happening all over the west. The bad thing about the bad publicity with Jarbridge is that a lot of uneducated people now theink they have the edge over the educated.
richard dahlgren what other good places in the state ?
Chrys Olson Joy: Yes...gorgeous country. The disbuted road went to two primative campsites at the trailhead. Since the main use was wilderness access I found the entire arguement amazing. The primary users are backpackers and I did not feel an extra mile and a quarter would keep them out. A very few locals in Jarbidge used the road. Tha main campground was not impacted.
Idaho Video St Anthony Sand Dunes.
Idaho Video Same debate exists there
John Freemuth Anybody on from Nevada?
Idaho Video Idaho Falls
Joy Bloch It really is about a mile and a quarter. Now I understand the statement about it being a fundraiser...
Chrys Olson Joy:A very limited number of folks from the town ever used the road. A lot of misinformation went out that the agency was blocking the main road into town.
Ben Poston there are lots who belive that wilderness is best enjoyed in a 35 foot Winabago..
richard dahlgren st A dunes are easily accessable.
Kerridan That's true about the Road, Chrys.
Idaho Video I own a 4x4.
Chrys Olson John: I'm from Nevada. Lived in Elko County for 8 years. Worked for the FS.
Joy Bloch Ben: Edward Abbey has lots to say about that
John Freemuth thanks, chrys
Ben Poston Yeah?? How is E Abby???
Joy Bloch Dead
John Freemuth beter check with Hayduke about Abbey
Kerridan I own a 4x4. I don't abuse my priviledge. Just to get me from Point A to Point B, on a legal road.....
Steven King but his legecy lives on
Peter Morrill4
Idaho Video rich: they used to be,... took my 2 kids there last summer...under age 4. had to walk a 1/2 mile to get to the sand. blm blocked off motorized vehicle access
Ben Poston Oppps who is E Abbey..?? sorry..
John Freemuth hi peter
Kerridan Chrys: Good to have a FS employee on board. Still working for 'em or are you doing other things?
Idaho Video hey, its mr PTV
Steven King heyduke could be lurking nearby
richard dahlgren Edward Abbey would have made a great head of the USFS.
Chrys Olson Kerridan:Doing other things after 12 years.
Peter Morrill Hi John...aka Professor of the Year!
Ben Poston St Agoney is a real prime example of how things git out of hand..
Joy Bloch Ben: He is an author who worked for the Nat. Park service, was quite critical and wrote a number of wonderful books. Desert Solitaire is a good representation.
Kerridan I've worked for 'em, too.
Idaho Video in the forest roads you need a 4 x 4 just on the main roads. especially in inclement weather. without the roads there is no access, no protection in case of fire.
Chrys Olson John: I think we met in Winnemucca. Didn;t you speak at an employee function a couple years back?
Ben Poston Oh yes...now i member...i think..
doug peacock Abbey is buried in a beautiful, illegal grave. I know because I laid in it before I laid him into it. I saw seven buzzards from the bottom of his grave. Ed wanted to be reincarnated as a turkey vulture, so that was my sign that it was a perfect place. A beautiful illegal grave at the edge on the e desertdge of one of the great American desert wildernesses. A couple hours before he died, I was with him
doug peacock the last time he smiled was when I told him he was going to be buried
doug peacock I check on him a couple of times a year
richard dahlgren Ben: Abbey also wrote the Monkey Wrench Gang.
doug peacock it's still out there in the middle of noplace
doug peacock a wild, desert landscape
John Freemuth thanks Doug, whew
doug peacock Yeah
Steven King good on ya doug
John Freemuth Chrys:yes
doug peacock that's probably enough, huh?
Ben Poston Ahhh the MWG..!!!!!now I see said the blind man to his deaf dog..
John Freemuth Doug--yeah--
doug peacock one of the last great things a man can do for a friend..one of the great acts of friendship, really meant a lot to me
Kerridan Ben: Is this a zen thing?
Gregg Cawley You bet, Doug!
doug peacock I'm outta here. Good night.
Chrys Olson Kerridan:Went sailing in Mexico for 6 months...currently working on a book about my adventures as a federal govt. cowgirl during a contentious time in a contentious place. Couldn't write it while still with the agency.
Peter Morrill John, have you done research on the "rules" of collaboration?
Steven King thanks for sharing doug
John Freemuth a bit--aint too many
Ben Poston Well not Zen perzactly..sorter more like West Wind stuff...if you can understand..
Idaho Video Pete : the role of PTV is not to help us understand each other.
Gregg Cawley In a sense rules of collaboration is a bit of an oxymoron, non?
Kerridan Chrys: Very interesting. I hope to read your book once its published. Pity they won't let us be honest, isn't it?
Steven King what book?
Ben Poston maargo still in here???
Chrys Olson Kerridan:yes. I had as much trouble internally as externally. The Mormon ranger thing, problems with strong independent women.
Chrys Olson Steven: One I'm currently writing.
Steven King oh
Kerridan Chrys: I can relate.
Ben Poston Strong independant women???
Peter Morrill Seems like collaboration is made up of many different factors, not the least of which is some level of mutual respect for your partner...would be tough to come up with rules if that were absent.
Kerridan Well, yeah....
John Freemuth true--but its getting to the respect that cant be mandated....
John Freemuth Peter--are we off around now?
Gregg Cawley Might also be that collaboration falls under the same umbrella as anarchy--its not about life without rules, but rather who gets to make the rules.
richard dahlgren5
Ben Poston Hey this is a fun chat group..!!!
Peter Morrill Well, the show ended about thirty minutes ago.
margo james The TV show in Nevada just ended a few minutes ago
John Freemuth Gregg--sounds right
Steven King wow greg!
Chrys Olson Just curious. Am I the only Nevadan in here?
margo james Chrys-might be!
Kerridan Then, I'm outta here. Great chatting with you all. Happy Holidays, everyone. Chess Rules!!!!
Steven King idaho ho ho here
Ben Poston I am in SEIDAHO...
Idaho Video what town ben>?
Idaho Video I Falls
Ben Poston Roberts...
Peter Morrill John, Gregg, thanks for all the help...bye.
Idaho Video oh, I have some not so proud to call my relatives relatives there
margo james Yes, thanks to everyone who has contributed to the chat. Thanks for the feedback too.
Kerridan
Ben Poston Came down from Montana tho...not Native...Thank you Jesus...
Idaho Video MT is a great place
Gregg Cawley Gotta go folks. The concierge needs his desk back. I'll be one of the moderators for the ongoing chat.
Idaho Video wide open spaces. lots of trucks. most with california plates satly
Idaho Video sadly
Ben Poston Yeah....my hometown shutdown about twenty years ago...
John Freemuth see you gregg--call ya monday--gotta go too will help moderate
Steven King is that mt video?
Idaho Video yes
Ben Poston You otta goup there and mix with the locals..they are all big union types..
Idaho Video An interesting politcal dynamic up there too huh
Chrys Olson Thanks for the input. The token Nevada girl is otta here.
Idaho Video bye
margo james Hey guys, just a 5 minute warning...we'll be closing the chat for the night. Come back and check out the moderated webboard we'll have up for the next month. Nice chattin'!
Chrys Olson@88
Ben Poston Yeah you couldnt git elected javalin catcher if they found out you were republican..
Kerridan 2
Idaho Video well. its been fun.
Ben Poston I think we bee gitting kicked out..!!!
Idaho Video sounds that way
Steven King yes it has
Steven King when is this chat open again?
Idaho Video next live show probably?
Chrys Olson
Ben Poston I do enjoy a nice livery poitical discussion..!!!
Idaho Video welcome back cris
margo james The show airs again on Sunday! 5:30 MT, 4:30 PT in Idaho, anyway.
Chrys Olson Thanks. FYI when did the show air in Idaho?
Idaho Video If only this window was large enough to read it.... without spending 2/3 of the time scrolling in the ilttle window
Steven King will chat open then margo?
margo james The show aired at 8MT in Idaho and Wyoming.
Ben Poston Margo...whisper in you it folks ear...we needs a bigger winder to look in..'
Steven King true i v
margo james We weren't planning live chat again, but moderated webboard...how do you feel about that?
margo james Gotcha on the window, buddy
Idaho Video as long as comments get incorporated into the show
Ben Poston Hey I love live chat...!!!!
Chrys Olson Location of the webboard?
Idaho Video positive feature!
Steven King i'd go with chat
margo james Don't know if comments here will get a show, but they'll be on the web site for awhile for others to read and react to
Idaho Video oh, now that would be interesting
Ben Poston I would have loved to ask Mr Forst Service if he was ("consulting") for the forest products boys agin...
Steven King focus west web site?
margo james webboard will be from the same "particpate" button on the focuswest.org homepage. Come back,please, add some more then
margo james TTFN
richard dahlgren
Idaho Video why is it we only had 10 or so participants in this chat in a state of so many
Steven hall
Idaho Video that is what I want to know
Steven King room may have a limit
Kerridan 2 what I would like to see, is the incorporation of our questions into the TV show. Adios.
Chrys Olson I'd like to have some more from my state.
Ben Poston Most folks here don't seem able to carry on an intelligent political discussion
Ben Poston Speaking of Idaho...not the chat group..
Chrys Olson Watch it....
Steven King lol
Kerridan 2 so true
Idaho Video & NV too where topic is relavent
Steven King behind the potato curtain
richard dahlgren Ida.Vid: I think the online discussions were limited to the Jarbidge issue, which is very old news.
Ben Poston Its either your FER ME or AGIN ME...
Idaho Video Free taters to outa staters
Ben Poston I loves debating wooves and George Hanson..
Chrys Olson Old news that keeps getting rejuvinated.
Steven King when they outlaw potatos only outlaws will have potatos
Idaho Video I had never heard of the issue of the meeting, .was news to me, but I don't recreate in that part of the state.
Kerridan 2 well I will not say a good bye more obtruse than the last.
Ben Poston Hey buy some of the damn things will you My ears are numb listening to these pore farmers whining out the window of some $40,000 pickup about how bad they got it..
Steven King lol
Idaho Video Sadly the politics of the state is skewed towards boise/sun valley.
richard dahlgren But Jarbidge is such a nothing thing now. It's resolved. Let's move on to issue of real importance.
Steven King move on richard
Ben Poston Hey you ain;t the scarey story Steven King are you>>>:O)
Steven King he's ph
Idaho Video I think the state budget conflicts would have been a more appropriate discussion, or activities to improve business climate in the state
Idaho Video I love your scarey movies.
richard dahlgren The dewatering of the Henrys Fork and the South Fork of the Snake, The Big Lost, etc.
Idaho Video SK: carey....
Ben Poston Yeah them republicans can sure take pride in this years budget.
Steven King plutonium in the aquifer
Idaho Video oh, on that topic... the lower teton river was bone dry this summer due to upwater dewatering. er Talk about a fish kill.... I salvaged some of the most wild beautiful fish you ever saw... up to 5 pounds each.. most 18 inches
Ben Poston Now would your Govmmint lie to you about plutonium in your aquifier???
Steven King giz, i hope not
Idaho Video I did some subsurface INEEL projects over the past 2 years, I for one will drink it.
Idaho Video A non issue.
Steven King where on the lower teton?
Ben Poston Word: If the DOD or the DOE is talkin...they are lying..
Idaho Video except for non-scientific opinion..
Steven King by the old dam?
Idaho Video below sugar city both forks were drained... every bug dried and dead.
richard dahlgren The Henrys Fork below Island Park Dam is running at 84 CFS. Goodbye to that stream for a few years.
Idaho Video I salvaged in the area near hibbard - salem
Idaho Video Had there been more people there they could have had all they wanted.
Steven King good for you iv
Ben Poston We rilly rilly otta work for a new priority for water use in Idaho...and Mt too..
Idaho Video I wish the F&G would have been there with a truck to dump them back in the Hen Fork. I am a bit upset that it was let to happen
Steven King did you transplant them or eat the
richard dahlgren The South Fork will soon be at 550 CFS. Thanks'Tater' farmers.
Idaho Video Ate as many as could, the rest are in my freezer.
Steven King water master is a heady title
Idaho Video Coming back from deer hunting this fall drove by pasisaides... it was a real joke.... no water outside of 2 miles of the dam and then just a bit. I have never seen it that low
Ben Poston Maybe we should ottta start an inititive drive..scare the hell otta them..
Idaho Video I sympathise for the farmers. But you don't kill a fishery.
Idaho Video That was avoidable. Since it was diverted intocanals
Steven King one of the many faces of greed
Ben Poston It will take a major change in the political winds of Idaho..but it can be done..
Steven King was frank church really from here?
Idaho Video The shame of the teton, every fish was a wild one. Most were cuts.
Idaho Video the smallest one I got was 11 inches long
richard dahlgren A drive was tried about eight years ago promoted by a dedicated F&G biologist in IF. The Mormon farmers got rid ofhim real fast bigtime.
Steven King it ran all year up here in the valley
Idaho Video 1 sucker of the bunch, 1/4 whitefish
Idaho Video no chubs
Ben Poston Yep...church was one of the more respected folks in the country except here.. FAT GEorge was their boy..he is Gonna SAVE the Constitution you know..
Steven King god, i forgot all about george
Idaho Video The frank church wilderness area is a place I never went until this year.
Ben Poston Now you gotta ask yurself about the folks who voted for Geroge Wallace AND George Hanson..
Idaho Video 2 dead end roads going in. 1 massive outfitter ranch in the middle of it with public land on all sides.
richard dahlgren It can be done but it will be a battle. The first step is to have someone challenge Idahos position on the Public Trust Doctrine.
Idaho Video dead standing douglas firs as big around as my truck standing dead everywhere... and rotting on the ground.
Ben Poston RE_publican Trust???
Steven King i like dead trees
Idaho Video I was sick... the upper part of it had burnt killing all the trees but still standing.
Idaho Video not a one can be logged because it is wilderness.... so the streams fill with silt from the bare dirt.
Steven King wilderness is burnt dead trees
richard dahlgren In (?) the state legislature passed a resolution that is doesn't apply in Idaho.
Idaho Video I was sick!!!!
Ben Poston Hate to break it to you Idaho..but the logged over areas burned too...
Idaho Video I understand that forest will burn, I enjoy nature... but the forest must be used for economic gain too.
Ben Poston BUT it weren't not forest fires...nosirryee....
Idaho Video There not any of it was logged in that area... from either access road.
Steven King millions and millions of years it didn't need to be iv
Idaho Video gotta change a dirty diaper
Ben Poston Not economically feasible ro use horses...like too much work man...cain't drive my XD_ Forest Slayer in there and go loggin..
Steven King if you can't motor in then it's aclosed area
Steven King don't ya know
Ben Poston But you still can log it..
Idaho Video They could log it easy.
Ben Poston Ifn you gots the cajones...and skills to log by hand..
Idaho Video (changing that dirty diaper makes me an environmentalist... it sure improved my environment!!!)
Steven King lol
Ben Poston I wonder who is observing us...??? we gots nine of em>????
Idaho Video they can haul em out by air or on the road.
Steven King why, it's wilderness
Idaho Video people who couldn't figure out how to login themselves
Ben Poston Yeah but they don't git paid to build the roads...and that's where the real money used to be..
Ben Poston The Money is not in the trees...the money is between the trees...
Idaho Video let me saw up the wood, I'll get em out. They wont burn that way
Ben Poston Have at...jist no motors...
Ben Poston I still remember how to run one end of a six foot two man saw..
Idaho Video the money is in the outfitters who get their own private reserve to take their paying customers in for a week. while just before hunting season they shoot up the hills with blanks chasing the elk into the high country.... and then they herd the elk to their clients on tree stands in the tree groves way up high.
Ben Poston Don't git me started on doubtfitters..
Idaho Video tree stands in the groves.
Steven King where are the tourist now?
Idaho Video Diamand D. remember that name.
Steven King targhee is a ghost town
Idaho Video in some out of state boardroom
Idaho Video Targhee forest. I used to love it there... some clear cuts has hurt it.
Idaho Video there is a better way to log than that.
Idaho Video Not much logging going on now though
Ben Poston what we gotta do is git some Black forest lumber boss and put him in chanrge of the Forest service.
Idaho Video how's that?
Idaho Video (not knowing about black forest specifics)
Ben Poston You ever hear how they do things in Germany..???
Idaho Video nope
Steven King we need to blunder as we are for another 800 years to get there
Ben Poston the Boss goes in and markes the trees he wants cut...and figures the board feet ect..bids go out..
Idaho Video we're down to 6 observers... thing they would want to join us
Ben Poston And the winner goes in...for every other tree he damages or soil distrurbance he gits docked..
Idaho Video I've seen some good examples of good foresty in this state, but the examples of bad outweigh it, in my humble of opinions
Steven King sounds reasonable
Ben Poston No ifs ands or buts..no runnin to the local congressman and whining..
Steven King i have a forestry degree
Ben Poston do it right the first time..
Idaho Video I like to see an area where you go out and see big stumps with lots of trees all around it, like nothing happened. Trees of different ages.etc.
Steven King it can be done
Ben Poston so does all the forest service types...but first thing you do if you wanna keep your job is forgit everything you learned in school
Steven King righty o ben
Idaho Video not too thick,. not too bare. and always replanted with the native species, not left bare and exposed... and never next to the streams
Ben Poston Espaecailly with the Bureau of Land Manglement
Steven King yes, make a little money for a long time rather then alot once and then nothing
Ben Poston Or is that Bureau of Livestock and Mining??
Idaho Video thats it,.. waste not want not
Steven King like in case your children might need a job
Idaho Video or you
Ben Poston WEll there is alwasys the Ring Shank Solution!!!!
Steven King right, or me
Ben Poston Known in West Montana as RSS...
Steven King there have been more then a few tries to cut the bechler out of yellowstone for logging
Idaho Video it wouldn't have burned had a little care been taken to remove the dead wood.
Steven King it a wonder it hasn't come up again
Idaho Video now a generation or two will not be able to enjoy it forested
Idaho Video Frankly, it will happen again... in a year like last year when it is dry. And more will go up unless they learn from lessons of the past
Steven King i v yellowstone is doing so much better than reforest targhee forest it's not even comparible
Ben Poston When the moisture content of the forest is less than kiln dried wood at K Mart you are gonna have a forest fire..pure and simple no way around it...you can cut thin or anyother thing you want..
Steven King lodge pole need fire to germinate the seed, need 160 degrees
Idaho Video fire is a part of the natural cycle of things. but there is a need to manage the resource
Steven King yellowstone forest is not a resource
Ben Poston True...
Idaho Video what can I say to that. It is a resourcee... in several contexts
Ben Poston I love to go up there and watch the tourists..
Steven King not for timber
Idaho Video I love to avoid the place to get away from the tourists.
Steven King i go when ever i can
Idaho Video No seriously its timber is a resource to provide tourism dollars to 3 states that depend on the revenue for jobs... it burns and we and the ones smoking... (who wants to see a bunch of dead trees)
Ben Poston You gotta woik on your sense of humor..!!!!Nuuting in the world better than busloads of flatlanders for amuzements
Ben Poston Jellystone is pretty much greened up the last I was up there..
Steven King can't buy it iv,
Idaho Video Your right, seeing people up there see things in nature like they have never seen it before is entertaining
Idaho Video (because they haven't--for the most part)
Steven King walk a mile into the woods the other way from the trail head
Ben Poston Harry put lil Joey on that Buffalo so we can send a picture to Aunt Maude..
Idaho Video Lot of green grassy area... but take the upper geyser basin and the trees near there... it wil take a long time to replace the old growth trees.
Steven King sure, but nature has a different lifespan
Idaho Video not to call me a tree hugger.
Ben Poston :O( BUt look whut they done with poor Yogi and Boo Boo...never se them up there any more...
Idaho Video I saw my first wild bear this year ever out hunting in the FCW area this fall... it was pretty cool.
Steven King i paddled behind a black bear in the tetons
Idaho Video I have seen 1 bear once in yellowstone... and the park ranger kicked us out since he was coming up the river.
Ben Poston WE used to see em every day...they came right up on the front porch every nite..
Steven King if you go there enough you see them
Idaho Video I don't miss seeing bears in yellowstone. I do miss the green.
Idaho Video I love wooden houses.
Steven King iv it's GREEN
Idaho Video ok
Idaho Video mostly
Ben Poston Idaho...when was the last time you in Jellystone???
Idaho Video 2 yrs
Idaho Video ago
Idaho Video 3?
Steven King check it out, the new trees are 6' now
Idaho Video maybe I'll have to .
Ben Poston Some places more like 12'
Idaho Video I spend alot more time in jackson
Steven King right
Idaho Video I love the canyon of the upper south fork
Idaho Video nice area
Idaho Video kind of like payette river.. on western ID
Steven King in swan valley?
Steven King or above alpine
Idaho Video Above... although SV is choice too
Idaho Video alpine etc
Ben Poston I love Jackson too...flatlander in a $300 parka ,yak hat on.... and shorts and Birkensocks...freezing his arse off..
Steven King you all dwell to much on the geeks
Idaho Video the local joke: the billionaires in jackson are forcing out the millionaires in driggs since they cant afford the increased cost of living
Ben Poston Well normal people ain't no funne:O(
Steven King geeks are everywhere if you look for them
Idaho Video I avoid yellowstone like i said since I enjoy the solitude found in other wild places.
Ben Poston St Angony on Memorial DAy???
Idaho Video But I wouldn't prevent others from going there.... just because I prefer other locations.
Steven King i've spend maybe 40 days winter camping there
Idaho Video Friday before I have been known to catch a bit to eat there.
Idaho Video ;)
Steven King nice once you get away from the sound of snowmachines
Ben Poston Fer shame on yas...
Ben Poston Either of you been out to the dunes on Labor Day or Memorial day..???
Idaho Video I grew up north of Rexburg .... I don't mind the machines and frankly you can go to lots of places up that way and not see anybody all day long
Steven King nope
Ben Poston Hey if you had one small thermonuclear device you could depopulate Utahr...
Idaho Video Having worked for a local news abc affiliate for a time we had someone up there covering fatal accidents nearly every such holiday.
Ben Poston Carrottshappers by the droves...
Steven King wait i got olympic tickets
Idaho Video I lived in Provo for 12 months... I would never choose to live in UT again
Ben Poston 40 foot motor home with a trailer for the sandrailer
Ben Poston and racks for the motorcycles..
Idaho Video Idaho is great. quiet. wild places. and the fishing is fair some of the time.
Steven King in norway the king skies to work
Steven King skis
Ben Poston And a big ole 3/4 ton Ford with a 460 a ratt tatting along..
Idaho Video The nearly a foot on my lawn would let a person ski there.
Idaho Video come on up
Ben Poston An where are you IV...??
Steven King i am up
Idaho Video It should be a little better water year from what I see.
Idaho Video Idaho Falls
Ben Poston Hee heee I think you gots more snow there than I do here...
Idaho Video Where's up ? (its not hard to be up on me)
Steven King victor
Idaho Video great little town
Idaho Video I spend alot of time up there.
Steven King luckily i'm a millionaire
Steven King not
Idaho Video I am not yet, so I just go to visit.
Ben Poston Well shucks..hate to run off and leave all you nice folks....and you observers too... but I gotta go to work in the morning...
Idaho Video I saw lots of deer on the road this summer
Idaho Video between our towns
Steven King see ya ben
Idaho Video live ones mostly
Idaho Video bye ben from roberts
Ben Poston bye...hey we gotta open this chat more often..
Steven King autos in the role of natural selection
Idaho Video We have our own role to play in the ecosystem.
Steven King just hit the old, young and sick
Idaho Video and the does
Idaho Video since you cant hunt them anymore
Steven King does eat oats
Idaho Video unless you're 15
Idaho Video and hay
Ben Poston Hey we have mulies here in town al the time in summer...mooses too.
Steven King there's no season on tourist
Ben Poston A pity...
Idaho Video I shot a 2 point out of a hay field when I was in college.best eating deer I ever saw
Ben Poston Well good nite to all..
Steven King saw a 2 pt on piney pass week ago
Idaho Video I was hunting this fall the moose were everywhere... I got my 4 year old out of the truck and tossed a rock at one to get it to even stand up... they aren't even concerned about people hardly.
Idaho Video We enjoyed watching it' and all the others too.
Idaho Video Thats why I live here. Not for the wages
Idaho Video In victor you can appreciate that
Steven King no, me either
Steven King 6 miles from wilderness
Steven King so for now no mega homes in the tetons
Steven King i wonder in a years?
Idaho Video pretty nice. Living here is a choice. I could make a better living elsewhere by a long shot. But I would miss the mountains. (I proposed to my wife just off the road on the highway in front of the tetons near driggs)
Steven King sweet
Idaho Video I hope my kids will be able to enjoy the Idaho lifestyle too.
Steven King mine 2
Steven King the more we put away now the longer it may be around
Idaho Video One of my favorite fishing spots is that little creek out in the willows behind victor, Fox creek
Steven King look at the wildlife refuge in alaska
Steven King nothing is for ever
Steven King some people want nothing now
Idaho Video hmmm. sad but true. make the best of it as one can... locking people out isn't the solution though. The environmentalist activist groups tend to go that path.
Steven King lots of foxes there, go figure
Idaho Video I've had 100 fish days there.
Steven King is lock out no motor?or no walking?
Idaho Video most small ones. but its great to be able to seethe fish in the stream.
Steven King i see alot in my seakayak
Idaho Video to me lock out is no access.... if your handicapped no access is what prevents access. If you have small children, access is as far as you can carry them...etc. Roadless is no good.
Steven King well i disagree
Steven King you would pave the world
Steven King there are roads all over
Idaho Video One day this summer in my canoe I floated the upper teton from one of the upper teton bridges down to the one put out that is out in the middle o out in the field by that little camp ground. f a field. (you know its name likely) That is good enough access to me. Get me a dirt trail and have me be able to open and close the gate as I go, that is enough for me.
Steven King up every canyon here
Idaho Video I don't need pavement, I need access.
Idaho Video If I can get there in my canoe. That counts.
Idaho Video But to tell me I cant go there because its wilderness, that is what I find objectionable.
Steven King you can walk or take a horse so you're not locked out
Idaho Video People can be respectful to the reasource. The people who leave their trash everywhere to have other people pick up... that is a problem
Idaho Video Walking and horseback is not a solution available to everyone.
Steven King you can't have a solution for every one.
Idaho Video Although it is nice to have certain spaces reserved for that kind of stuff.
Steven King ever seen someone pushed thru disneyland on a hospital bed?
Idaho Video I hiked a couple days into copper basin with my wife when we were first married. A choice spot you would not want a road.
Idaho Video The rough hike beat us up... but it was worth it. But I would love to go back more often.
Steven King i've walked all over the world, skiied to. plenty of the planet is accessable by road
Steven King i'd hate to see the tetons look like a chicago street map
Idaho Video Fox creek has enough mosquitos at times where I would not want to get out of the car at times.
Idaho Video Last time I was there this past summer it was like that.
Steven King ha,ha. try Greenland for mosquitos
Idaho Video But I hiked in and left the kids in the car
Idaho Video Brazil has its share too. (from experience)
Steven King new zealand has sandflies you can't see in the postcards
Idaho Video The ants in brazil clean up your cupboard right after dinner, no need to wash it off. They would beat you to it anyways
Idaho Video off the subject.
Steven King yes the world is not all like the mall is it?
Idaho Video Well SK it was a pleasure visiting. But I better get things going for work tommorrow. Nice to hear your opinions. They are similar to my own.
Steven King bugs, rian, snow, mud i love all that
Idaho Video have a good one.
Steven King you 2, good fishing
Idaho Video cochroaches... I could tell you stories.
Idaho Video See you at the baloon festival.
Steven King muskox
Steven King righty o
|
FocusWest home | Los Americanos | Draining the West? | Western Divide | Spotlights | Participate | About |